Announcing the August Version Update! (07/18/2014)

[Ophannus]

DRG is probably getting High Jump attack bonus which is going to be as Martel put it, extremely worthless. I'd love if they changed the Jump Attack job points to either +dmg% or +DMG but +attack? Jumps already have crazy attack bonuses, what's the point? We have no stance ability to enhance so unless they give an Atk Bonus job point or Store TP Job point, DRG's job points are going to be lackluster.

inb4 SAM gets WS Damage +2% per upgrade for their next job point category...

[Malithar]

what we will most likely see tough is clear mind + enhancement lol and amount of HP rested for melees

Hope things like that never actually happen. +MAcc is already borderline like that. It's understandable for Rdm, Enfeebling is supposed to be their specialty, but Whm? Ehh.. Things like that should just be reserved for a new category of Other merits. Going to be really dumb if we end up having to grind out +MAcc or other such "usable by multiple jobs" types of enhancements for every single job that could make use of it.

Job points should be strictly focused on enhancing aspects/traits/abilities/spells of said job, rather than some catch all stat boost.

[Warusha]

Hope things like that never actually happen. +MAcc is already borderline like that. It's understandable for Rdm, Enfeebling is supposed to be their specialty, but Whm? Ehh.. Things like that should just be reserved for a new category of Other merits. Going to be really dumb if we end up having to grind out +MAcc or other such "usable by multiple jobs" types of enhancements for every single job that could make use of it.

Job points should be strictly focused on enhancing aspects/traits/abilities/spells of said job, rather than some catch all stat boost.

I couldn't agree more. I wouldn't mind a new "other" category which required job points.

[Damane]

Hope things like that never actually happen. +MAcc is already borderline like that. It's understandable for Rdm, Enfeebling is supposed to be their specialty, but Whm? Ehh.. Things like that should just be reserved for a new category of Other merits. Going to be really dumb if we end up having to grind out +MAcc or other such "usable by multiple jobs" types of enhancements for every single job that could make use of it.

Job points should be strictly focused on enhancing aspects/traits/abilities/spells of said job, rather than some catch all stat boost.

its their new grind tool which they intent to make last for 2-3 years until most of the players cap out on it.

[Byrthnoth]

Assuming they only have 5 categories * 22 jobs * 465 points per job (30 levels at level=jp cost), it would take 1.5 billion CP to cap out. Assuming an average of 100k CP/hr and CP parting 24 hours a day, that's 1.75 years of continuous playtime to cap all categories on all jobs.

Until they release an easier way to gain CP, this is effectively a grind tool for eternity.

[Fwahm]

I'm still holding out hope that JP required doesn't go up after 10 when they increase cap.

[geno3302]

I'm still holding out hope that JP required doesn't go up after 10 when they increase cap.

Calling it: cap will continue to increase at an increasing rate so going from 29 > 30 will cost 200 JP

[JSHidaka]

Assuming they only have 5 categories * 22 jobs * 465 points per job (30 levels at level=jp cost), it would take 1.5 billion CP to cap out. Assuming an average of 100k CP/hr and CP parting 24 hours a day, that's 1.75 years of continuous playtime to cap all categories on all jobs.

Until they release an easier way to gain CP, this is effectively a grind tool for eternity.

I barely get 15k cp/h in party(yea.. solo could get alot more)... so for "normal" players.. that would be 46yrs.

[Sechs]

Well, nobody wants to cap JPs on 22 jobs, so the final number would be smaller on that regard.
But nobody can realistically get 100k/hr JP 24hrs a day 7 days a week. So this means much more lol

Things are gonna get even more insane once we get even more categories and higher caps. I seriously don't get how so many of you can call this "reasonable".
If this is reasonable what is your definition of "unreasonable"?
I hated the extreme XP boost of Abyssea and merits becoming useless, I'm totally not aiming for such standards, but clearly there can be a better compromise between the current JP situation and the current XP situation? One is too high, the other is too low.

[Darkmagi]

15k cp/hour in a party sounds disgusting, I'm so glad I don't need to rely on a pug community.

[Byrthnoth]

The Job Point system should be (and is for most jobs) a token "I am dedicated to this job" system. The CP gain rate is almost irrelevant because there's essentially no reason to specifically seek JPs (except on a few jobs). Furthermore, your advancement can't be measured by your peers either through any obvious sign in game or likely on a parse, so it's really just a personal goal kinda deal.

I have capped Dancer job points. Do you think anyone is going to notice that my Sambas last 20 seconds longer or my Steps last 10 seconds longer? How about my Base damage+10 during Grand Pas? The most noticeable one is probably Trance, although many people wouldn't look for it and I'd still only rarely have a reason to use it.

[Sechs]

I don't get what your point is Byrth.
I mean, you're kind of saying that JPs are not particularly relevant for now, few exceptions made, are you?
I concur with this, I don't see how anybody wouldn't concur.

But the thing is that something added to a game should be something that provides entertainment and that's aimed at the largest possible number of players (not really worth to develop something that takes too much dev resources and it's gonna be enjoyed by only a couple of people. I mean this happens sometimes, but clearly I doubt they start developing content with this as their goal?).

Atm JP doesn't feel anything like this, it's slow, it's frustrating, it's annoying and it feels like a cheap grindfest to please a minority of elite players. Imho, of course.
If it were any other type of content it would just be completely ignored, wouldn't be the first time it happens with something new added to this game.
But the thing is that here there is just so much potential, and it's being used so bad atm, that it feels like a waste and it gives me a bad vibe.
This would need so little, so few, small changes to become something better, more fun, where you can see progress more consistently and at the same time still retain the long-time goal aspect.

[arus2001]

Perhaps the bigger issue is some XI players refuse to adapt their definition of "long term goal" relative to other games and the aging player base. We've got 22 jobs now. Even if it took you a month at, say, 15-20 hours a week of grinding to max a job, you're still looking at 22 months to max them all. No, not everyone is going to do that. At the same time, those who want to feel like the special snowflakes of a given job really shouldn't be given preference, either. But the XI base is also the type that, once things are upped to 30 and some more, potentially useful categories are added, you'll start seeing discrimination. Woe until he who dares to play an unpopular job 4 lyfe.

[Byrthnoth]

The Job Point system currently gives near-unlimited potential for character growth. They're adding new categories to it faster than it's possible to cap all categories on all jobs, which means it's open ended content that "elites" will be able to grind indefinitely. Here's an example of FFXI progression:

Time would be on the X axis and job utility is on the Y axis. I've probably overestimated the impact of job points for the sake of making the difference between the two scenarios visible. Point is, they added something to the game that is a massive time sink and hardly improves your character. In general the job point upgrades have an effort to reward ratio that makes Mythics look good. There are a few standout categories like Magic Accuracy and BLU set points, but by and large these job points are just a novelty designed explicitly for people that want to blue out everything.


Right now I work 12+ hour days 6 days a week and write/fix addons during the hour or two a night that I get to sit down at my computer. For the last two months:
* I'm tired of making RMEs, so I don't want gil. This knocks out Delve, Salvage, Dynamis, Limbus, and most BCNMs.
* I have all the AF and AF2 upgraded that I want. This knocks out the rest of the BCNMs.
* Do I want to make a group to kill Shadowlord and try to get . . . Fast Cast +7% for my Dancer? Really? Am I really going to do that?
* Farm CP while I work on addons.
* Join the first shout group I see to do some event that I don't need just for the love of the game. <-- this is what I do most nights

Also, lets not get confused and think that Job Points are somehow exclusionary content. You are certainly better if you have capped your job points, but there are very few situations where anyone else can actually *tell* that you have your job points capped. I admit that I'm nervous when I see shit like RDM and WHM's MAcc category, but it is not possible to discriminate against people for not having job points so it's really not a social issue.

[Sechs]

Byrth you're saying reasonable things, it's not that I don't agree with what you're saying but I don't get what your point is.
Are you saying we should stop being whiny lil' annoying twats and stop complaining?
Are you saying things should stay like this?
Are you trying to make us see the glass is actually half full instead of half empty?


What I'm saying is that I do *not* want them to completely overhaul the system and turn it into something that clearly it was never meant to be.
I understand the purpose of the system, the goal, the implications, the reward/effort issue and everything else.
I can accept these things staying as they are, but surely we can find (well, the devs can) a better compromise that will make the system slightly less frustrating?

Let me make a silly example, let's use the aspect of "speed rate" to use simple numbers.
Let's say that merits/xp speed rate is 20 on a 1 to 20 scale.
Let's say Job Points are 1.
I'm not asking for JP to become 20, or 19, or 18, or even 15. That would be unreasonable and stupid.
But surely they can make it become 2, or 3? Maybe even 4? That would be an improvement and I could call myself satisfied probably.
Wether JP are relevant or not, detectable or not... it makes no difference to me, or very little difference let's say.
It's a personal goal, a personal achievement, something to do when you don't want to do everything else (just like you said).
Can we make this thing a bit less boring, slow and frustrating and get the sense of reward to slightly more human-like levels? This is what I'm saying.

[Byrthnoth]

Byrth you're saying reasonable things, it's not that I don't agree with what you're saying but I don't get what your point is.
Are you saying we should stop being whiny lil' annoying twats and stop complaining?
Are you saying things should stay like this?
Are you trying to make us see the glass is actually half full instead of half empty?

All of these things. Also, I'd really like it if you could compose some paragraphs instead of putting every sentence on a separate line.


Why make job points less of a "HA, I actually did that" accomplishment when most of them offer afterglow-tier benefits?

[Fwahm]

Because players want them to be more than just afterglow-tier benefits, and when the cap is raised to 30, many will actually be pretty noticeable at cap.

That is, if they're feasible by then.

[dasva]

Idk I'd almost rather the jps give actual afterglow instead....

[Karbuncle]

All of these things. Also, I'd really like it if you could compose some paragraphs instead of putting every sentence on a separate line.


Why make job points less of a "HA, I actually did that" accomplishment when most of them offer afterglow-tier benefits?

THF ones offer bonuses to SA and TA, if they raise the cap to 30... a 30% bonus to DEX/AGI modifiers on SA and TA are going to be extremely noticeable :I, heck even right now 10% is rather noticeable. Still, there are very few jobs like this atm, still, Summoner has BP:Rage Damage+1% for a merit when using Conduit... so 30% BP Damage bonus while using Astral Conduit would also be quite noticeable.

So i mean, while Dancer's buffs may be piss in a bucket, there are a few jobs where this stuff is good now, and will be insanely good in the future. But the future is unclear, so as it stands right now, you're mostly correct, but not for all jobs.

Edit: I mean a few to note if the cap is ever raised to 30 like i believe they say is planned... and these are just of the 4 we have access to now. I'm only mentioning ones that seem like they could be significant in some situations, even if its just, for instance on SMN, WKR where you'd use SMN1hr's liberally.

Spoiler: show

PLD:.
Intervene would be looking at a 60% Damage increase.
Invincible would be looking at 3000 Static Enmity

DRK:
Soul Enslavement would be looking at 30% more TP Drained

RDM/BLM
Chainspell/Manaffont would have +60 Magic Damage.
(RDMonly) 30 Magic Accuracy

WHM
Benediction would also recover 30% of your MP

WAR(/DRK)
Berserk would grain an additional 60 attack, same with Last Resort

MNK
Focus an additional 30 accuracy

BRD
Minuet an additional 30 attack

RNG
Eagle Eye Shot a 90% Damage boost
Sharpshot would get an additional 60 R.atk
Camouflage would give 30% Critical hit rate

SAM
Meikyo would give 60% Bonus to skillchain damage (Quite powerful)
Yaegasumi would get 900TP Bonus.
Hasso would get an extra 30 STR

SMN
BP Damage increased by 30% While under the effects of new 1hr.
SMN would get an additional 30 acc/macc

DNC
Trance would grant instant 3000% TP.

SCH
Bolster would grant 90% more HP and -30 Perpetuation cost

RUN
RUN2hour would absorb 60% of magic damage instead of nullifying it.

[Bukadan]

i want new, difficult content, not rehashed old content/equipment. fuck jp adjustments if itd take away dev team from any of that